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World War II Museum. The date is August eight th 2012 and I'm here today in Solomons, Maryland. Sir. Could you please state your full name for me? Harold C Noel. And, uh, when, and where were you born, sir? In Massachusetts? Uh, June 20th, 1916. And, uh,

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could you tell me a little bit about, uh, life before the war, uh, uh, how the depression affected your family and, uh, what your upbringing was like? Yeah, I, uh, I believe I was running an elevator, uh, and, and the pay was $2 a day. Um,

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and, uh, I don't remember, um, whether I was in the painting business or not, um, before the war. Um, I think I, uh, was in the painting business and, and, uh, when war was declared, but I'm not sure. Did, uh, did you have a lot of

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friends growing up, uh, were, were they affected by the depression? Aye? Yes. Um, you know, that was, uh, hard times and, uh, uh, I often wondered why we had sort of spaghetti so much, uh, baked beans. But, uh, oh, we were fortunate to get by and,

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uh, my brother and myself, I would go, uh, down to a mill where they swept out the second floor. Uh, they made, uh, uh, such things as molding door moldings or whatever. And, uh, uh, in the mining they'd, uh, probably six o'clock, they'd, uh, they sweep

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her out and, uh, the kids would fight for the, for the fight for the wood and then we'd, uh, we put it in the cotton and, uh, bring it home. My brother and I, uh, my brother was six years of seeing it to me. And, um,

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uh, we, we'd go every morning, um, uh, for the down to the mill and, uh, and get enough water to last through the winter. Um, can you tell me how you found out about Pearl Harbor? We were, uh, we had become, uh, my wife and I

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had become engaged. Uh, and, uh, there were no credit cards in those days, I don't believe. Uh, and so you would save money. And, uh, the night before the attack on Pearl Harbor, we, uh, we bought a kitchen set that we liked and we weren't married.

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But, uh, uh, my, my sister had a big, big old house and with an attic and, uh, uh, she said we could, uh, store the kitchen set until we got married. And, uh, uh, that was, uh, I think that was a Saturday night and, uh, the

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attack on Pearl Harbor came and, uh, the next day I, I enlisted and uh, uh, the, the, uh, kitchen set was delivered but, uh, it was in my sister's attic for pretty near four years. Did you find out, uh, through the newspaper, the radio? I heard

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it on the radio and, and, uh, Hitler had, had attacked the lowlands and, uh, and, uh, I remember saying, well, uh, will be not too long before we will be in a to, oh. Did you find out about the Pearl Harbor attack via radio? Um Yes.

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Um, that was the, the Sunday after the, my wife and I or my girlfriend and I had bought the kitchen set and uh, but uh the kitchen set was in my sister's attic for pretty near four years. We had the radio on and uh, um about

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the middle of the afternoon, I guess we heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor. You mentioned to me earlier that you went to enlist the next day. How did the attack on Pearl Harbor make you feel? Ohio was outraged. And uh uh there was a lot

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of patriotism at that time and uh, um I tried to enlist the next day or Sunday or Monday and uh I was told to, uh there were so many and fellows trying to enlist that uh uh they took my name and said they'd get in touch

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with me and I received a letter subsequent to that are saying that, that um uh it was a report. Um, so, or Fort Devins, I think, uh, which was the, the local, uh, what I say, army base, uh, on February 2nd. And, uh, what was it,

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the patriotism that, that drove you to enlist. Uh, can you tell me about the, the process of enlisting and, uh, where you were signed first? Well, I, I don't remember but, uh, uh, I think the general feeling was that how dare the attack, attack the United

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States? And, and, um, what did you say? Take me through the process of enlisting and where you were sent first. Uh, I was sent to, uh, to, for Devins, uh, for a few days. Um, and, and, uh, uh, we learned a short drill and, uh, and,

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uh, close to drill and, uh, uh, we had a army sergeant. I remember, uh, we would pick out icy spots for us to, to, uh, about face on a squad, right or squad left and, and, uh, oh, they, uh, they, it was there that I had

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learned about army life. If you, if you did something wrong, uh, you would move a coal pile, um, 11 piece of coal at a time across the road. And I saw that coal pile move back and forth across the road, uh, numerous times and they, uh,

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they would, they would put you to work digging a hole in the ground, say, uh, five by two by six ft or whatever. And, uh, the sergeant would, uh, come and measure it. And, uh, if, uh, if you are one inch off by God help you,

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um, how, how did you become interested in flying? Uh, how can you take me through that process? How, uh, how you sort of training to fly? I always, uh, I always was interested in, uh, airplanes. Uh, I knew a fellow that, uh, of course I couldn't

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afford to buy an airplane. Uh, and, and, uh, he was older than I, and, uh, he would take me up in, uh, in, uh, uh, open cockpit biplane and, and, uh, uh, he, uh, I hate it. His name was and, and, uh, but there was another

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follow. I used to fly with, uh, uh, Tom Crow and, uh, he would, uh, fly and, and, uh, uh, drop, drop things in case there was a flood or whatever and, uh, for supplies and, and, uh, and, uh, the lighthouses in the, in the Boston Harbor

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and so forth. And, uh, well, I, uh, there again, I have things stuffed in with me and, and, uh, I, I throw them out and, and I, no, I, no packages. Oh, I, I don't know or know how many times I did that but, uh, uh,

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we, we done it. Uh, most guys were, were separated to train as either a pilot navigator, uh, or a radio man. Uh, what was your specialty aboard? The, the B 24? I was a navigator. And can you tell me about some of the training that, um,

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that, that, that be being a navigator entailed, uh, what you had to do. Well, there were two phases of it, uh, pre fight and advanced and, uh, uh, pre flight you had all the mathematics and, and, uh, uh, and so on and, and if, uh, I

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have, um, if the class average was, uh, uh, was too low, uh, the ones that were the lowest would be flunked out and, and, uh, the, the, uh, the army had a way of telling you that, uh, we'll do it until we get the class average

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are high enough. And, uh, uh, I think there were, uh, 90 or some large number of us when the class started and, and that wound up being 30. Do, um, do, do you remember how you felt when you first saw the B 24? Uh, can you

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tell me a little bit about the aircraft and, uh, and, and, and what you thought of it? Well, I, I had been, uh, uh, I have been, uh, uh, will be 25 and, and to me the B 24 our, it, uh, like, uh, like, uh, B

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25 it would be like a sports car and the, the B 24 was like a bus. Um, did you feel that, that, uh, you were trained adequately before you went overseas? Did you, did you have a pretty good grasp of what your job? Was, yeah, uh,

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uh, we would, uh, uh, after I finished navigation training, where you, uh, uh, we went to Boise Idaho and, uh, uh, they, uh, I learned, we found a crew, I guess. And, uh, um, the, uh, the crew of the B 24 was 10 men, 10 men.

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We were all kids and, and, and, uh, um, oh, yeah, everybody, uh, everybody learned their job. Uh, they, uh, I, I would, uh, I would be given the job of, uh, of, uh, intercepting a train for instance. And, uh, we would, uh, the trains were pretty

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much on time in those days and, uh, we wouldn't figure out where the, the train would be at a certain time and, and, uh, we would, uh, intercept it and, uh, the gunners would, uh, would practice on the lava beds, uh, uh, on a low level

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and, and, uh, oh, we had, uh, a tow target. Uh, b 26 would be, uh, trailing the long tow target and the, the bullets, uh, uh, would have, uh, different colors of paint on them. And so you could identify who, who did what and, uh, we

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all had to do each other's job on the airplane. Were you nervous to fly at all or? Did you enjoy it? No, no, I, I enjoyed it. Can you, uh, can you tell me, uh, how you got overseas, uh, here? That's a pretty interesting story. Um,

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take, take me through that. That first trip across the Atlantic. And, uh, what, what that was like for you, we were told to, uh, pick up our airplane and, uh, I don't, I think it was poo Idaho and, and uh, uh we picked up our rear

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plane, a brand new one and we flew to Topeka Kansas and then we flow to um, yeah, somewhere in uh Nevada. Um, I think I can't think of the name of the place uh where we picked up the bomb site the night and bomb site was

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the latest word. And man, we flow to um West Palm Beach, Florida and from West Palm Beach, Florida, we were are supposed to head to Trinidad and uh we ran shot of gasoline and we had to sit down at uh Saint Lucia and, and uh that

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sort of told us something uh because the, the airplane was using too much fuel. And so, uh we didn't realize it and, and um, then we went from, from Trinidad to uh no, what the mouth of the Amazon River. Uh I can't be in Brazil and

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uh oh, a low level. Uh I don't, and then we went from there to Natal and uh Brazil, which is the northeast corner of Brazil. And then we took off at night, 10 o'clock at night to fly across to um Africa, French, West Africa. Um We

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almost didn't make it, oh, for one thing we found that, that they had put some mail bags in the tail of the plane. And so the plane was, uh, mushing, sort of like this tail heavy. And, uh, I, I figured that, uh, we took off at

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10 o'clock at night and, uh, I figured when we got to the point of no return, the engineer said that we wouldn't be able to make it the rest of the way. Well, uh, we had, uh, a tail wind so I figured that uh uh we

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couldn't make it back and, and uh, so the gun is, the gun has shifted the load and uh we picked up speed and, and uh, so I, when we sighted the car Africa, we were lined up with the uh the runway and we asked permission to

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uh come straight in uh no downwind leg or base leg or any of that. And, and, and uh so we, we landed and uh uh we were taxiing back and we ran out of fuel and the, the uh I remember the engineer calling me up on

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the plane on the wing of the plane until uh um look at the gas tank and uh the copilot came up through and uh uh there was practically no gas in the, in the other tanks. And uh uh so I remember the copilot saying, thank God

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you told us about that tail wind. I remember mentioning that we had picked up a tailwind and uh uh uh pretty good speed and uh and uh he said, I, I thank God for that tail wind and I, I remember saying, and I already have, um,

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so from uh the car, we flew up across the Sahara Desert, uh throw a pass in the uh Atlas mountains, I think it was to Marrakesh. Uh We were in America so a few days and then we flew over to, uh which is near Tuna. Um

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We, um we were probably 20 or 30 miles outside of us. Uh, it was there that I, I, uh, was injured and they went to the hospital and, uh, ah, and I remember being in the hospital and, uh, and, uh, oh, the, the road into Tunas.

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Oh, it was, uh, uh, all littered with, uh, with, uh, so many, uh, tanks and cars and trucks and, and, uh, uh, the war had been, uh, fought a short time before we got there. We, we would take off and to us. Uh, I do, uh,

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and, uh, they, uh, take off above a hill and, uh, and, uh, they, they said that there was 4400, uh, dead, uh, dead bodies. Uh, uh, but they had all been booby trapped. Uh, so, uh, we were German bodies and, uh, uh, so the law had,

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uh, had, uh, been fought there not too long before we got there. And so as I say, I was in the hospital and, and, uh, and, uh, having some repairs done to myself as well as the airplane and, and uh, oh, uh, I, I found out

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that uh, we are going to fly over to Southern Italy. And, uh, and so I fussed and, and uh, uh, about getting out and, and, uh, I remember the doctor saying, well, if you don't fly at altitude or, um, we'll, uh, we'll let her out. Well,

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uh, the next day I was flying at altitude and, uh, so I didn't bleed and, oh, we, uh, flow several missions are ranging from, um, from a pro to the France and, and, and, and, uh, the one target that was terrible. That was, uh, they made,

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uh, a ball bearings and the like of that for the airplane industry and, and I'm, uh, uh, we were, we were heading for what they call, I call the initial point and, uh, I knew that the, uh, at a certain point we, of course, and, uh,

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pick up a tailwind and, uh, so we'd get over the quickly. Oh, I, uh, I remember no gunner saying, uh, look at all those planes going down. I'm glad that we have, uh, we, we don't have that target and I counted nine airplanes going down over

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the target and, and, uh, uh, I didn't say anything but that was our target too. And, uh, so I, I gave the order to alter course, uh, when we, uh, picked up the tail wind and, and, uh, we lost so many um, that was, uh, to

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me that was, uh, the worst target we ever, we had. Um, and, uh, the one when they, they announced that we were going to hit a new start again, everybody groaned. Um, we, uh, we ranged from, uh, I remember a target in Bucharest S D, uh,

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Leon in France. And, uh, and, and, uh, I don't remember all the other targets. But, uh, can you describe a mission from the, from the beginning when you wake up in the morning to when you return to base? Yes. Uh, I had, we would get up

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at, uh, oh, I'm hardly hour in the morning. And, uh, and will we be out of the, the base, uh, am strip? Uh, we get in a jeep and they, they would take us out, uh, to the air base and, and uh, out of the strip

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and, uh, we take off a day break, um, depending on the, on the mission. Uh, I don't know, Zoe, we ever had on an easy mission. Um, the first patient was supposed to, would be an easy one. And so they, uh, I, it was a colonel

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hand, I think his name was, uh, he was, uh, in the office. He, he wasn't a flying colonel. And, uh, so he, he wanted to go along for the ride to say that, that he'd been on a mission. It was supposed to be an easy one.

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Uh, but it didn't turn out that way and uh, uh, one plane collided with another, uh, and, and, uh, knocked off the tail section and I can still see the, the knows the tail gunner. Uh, he couldn't wear a parachute in the turret and uh uh

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floating by and, uh, the whole tail section went off the off, got chopped off the plane and, uh, the plane that hit it was uh, no dive and, uh, the pilot pulled it out at 10,000 ft. Uh, we had been bombing at a bomb, right? It

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was 22,000 ft. Uh, and, uh, uh, the, uh, the colonel that was, uh, uh, in the office, he, uh, uh, he, uh, he bailed out and, and, uh, and, uh, shortly after after that he, uh, pilot pulled the plane out, got control of the plane and

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brought it back to the base. Um, and, uh, funny thing, but when I, when I got to the start of three, he was the colonel. And, uh, oh, I don't know. Uh, we'd come back from a mission and they give us, uh, uh, a couple of

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shots of whiskey. And, uh, so we figured after 25 missions, we'd go to the island of Capri and, and, uh, give them an hour an hour. And so we, we, we, unless it was a real tough mission, we've saved the couple of shots of whiskey. Uh,

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so that we have it, uh, when we went to the Isle of Capri. Uh, but we never, never made it. Yeah, I know. So I, I felt after that live for today. Um, can you take me through the mission when you were shot down? Yeah. Yeah.

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Um, it was a Leon France and, and, uh, uh, we were the supposed to be the second airplane to take off. That, that was not because we were so good but, uh, uh, it was through attrition and, uh, oh, when we, uh, when we got airborne,

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uh, I was, uh, checking things and, and, uh, I, I, we were, we, uh, used to wear a, uh, the navigator, the bomb and the, the gunner, he used to wear a high and, uh, uh, with his chest chest pack, uh, parachute and, uh, in case

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of, uh, of, uh, uh, emergency, uh, we'd, uh, snap, snap the, uh, uh, or had rings in it and, and, uh, we'd snap it into, uh, uh, a chess pack. So, so, uh, I noticed that there are only two parachutes and, uh, uh, one said the

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bomb, one bomb said that one was his and I knew one was mine. And, uh, I said to the, I said, uh, gun with his name was actually Gun. And I, I said, go where your parachute. And he said right where I left out for usual

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place and I said, I don't see it. And, uh, I said, well, it's there, it's got to be there. Oh, Wow. Uh, I pulled rank and for once and, and I said, go get out of that turret and show me your parachute. Well, he, he scratched

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his head and, and I point about put it right there. And, uh, so the parachute had rolled out the nose wheel cell, take off the air base had been bombed and it was a pretty rough runway. So, uh, I told her, uh, he said to me,

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he said, oh, hell, I don't need a parachute. And I said the hell you don't. And I, I told the pilot we had to land and pick up another parachute. Well, we, uh, we had a full load of fuel and as well as a bomb load

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and it was a pretty risky thing to do. So we had to wait until the other planes all took off. Uh, I think we probably had 49 airplanes that day. And, uh, so he landed, they had another parachute for us. And, uh, we, uh, uh, we

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caught up with the group. Well, they, uh, the plane and directly behind us had moved up into our position. And, uh, and so we took, took the position of that. Our plane had evacuated and boxes of, of s, uh, 12345677, uh, in a box. And, uh,

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uh, so we took the, the, uh, position right behind him. In other words, we just swapped places well over the target that plane suffered direct or a direct hit and uh had just blown the bits and uh uh we always got hit, but uh it depended

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on how bad you got hit. But uh do they suffered a drug shot and, and uh completely destroyed. And all I saw of that plane was a three bladed propeller still spinning coming back at us. Um Well, we, we uh we got hit that day. So,

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and, and uh uh we had to bail out and so is gonna had his parachute and so did I, and so did the, and uh we all made it out. Um What I say. Now, tell me about uh drifting down and deploying your parachute. And uh

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you mentioned earlier about the lynch mob. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. Um I'm floating down in my parachute and uh I couldn't get over the uh the, the plane was so noisy and, and uh when I went diving out, uh I

00:41:16.040 - 00:41:56.429

couldn't get over how quiet everything was and, and um so I couldn't hear that dr I made a bomb run at uh at uh 21 or 22,000 ft and uh uh I bailed out at around 8000 ft and uh so I, I, I didn't uh open

00:41:56.439 - 00:42:24.850

my parachute right away but, but when I did uh um I could see that, see that there was a river and a high tension lines and, and um I'm watching both of them and, and the first thing I know that I, I saw a tree coming

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up at me and, and, uh, I must have got gotten knocked out, uh, when they hit the tree. But because, uh, uh, I woke up on the ground and, uh, there were two kids, uh, standing over me, so I don't know how long I'd been unconscious.

00:42:56.270 - 00:43:25.479

But, uh, I went, I took, uh, one of the kids' bicycles and, and I gave them all, all, all my heavy flight gear and uh as well as the parachute and the parachutes in the tree. And uh uh we made a, in other words, and I,

00:43:26.199 - 00:44:01.129

when peddling down, it was a rural area, then I went peddling down or, uh, there you go, or a wagon track and I came to a road and uh, I'm, I'm trying to get my bearings. Uh I, I tried to uh figure out where I was

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and, oh, all of a sudden, uh me and the, and, and uh everything went flying. In other words, somebody whacked me across the back and, and, uh, and uh, so I knocked to the ground and, and uh, somehow I was picked up by uh uh a

00:44:32.830 - 00:44:56.409

mob and uh a lynch mob because they were getting a rope ready to hang me. And uh they had one ring lead on it but would take a pistol and, and put it against my temple and, and whack my head in my head with it and,

00:44:57.229 - 00:45:20.139

and knocked me down and, and pull me up by my hair and, and uh that went on and on and so I could see that uh they were making a noose uh it was a piece of rope, in other words, they weren't going to hang me.

00:45:21.570 - 00:45:54.090

Yeah. And um all of a sudden, oh, I heard the blood was in my eyes so I couldn't see. Um, and uh, oh, yeah, I, I heard what turned out to be a German officer shouting and giving commands and all the beatings stopped and, and uh,

00:45:56.310 - 00:46:30.419

and uh he took charge and, and uh from there, I don't know, uh we were taken to a town hall, um, how I was and uh put in a, that they know had, uh had survived and, and um, uh he, he said that uh he didn't

00:46:30.429 - 00:47:07.350

know who I was, uh when they dragged me in, I was so bloody and everything. And, um, so, um, the survived and so did I, yeah, I know that night there you are, we are quieter than uh in the airplane hangar, an empty, hang out with

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God. And, and now there were three of us, I bring up those three. Uh And uh, so I don't remember who they were. Um, but in the morning they took us to um, a train station, I think, and uh we were taken to Vienna, the countryside

00:47:47.729 - 00:48:26.520

was beautiful in the spring of the year and, and all these chalets and, and, uh, but, uh, um, we were, I was put in, uh, a dungeon in solitary confinement in, uh, in, uh, in a castle. And, uh, so, um, I was hurting and, and, uh,

00:48:27.600 - 00:48:55.139

and, uh, I, again, I, I felt every inch of that place and, and, uh, I know it was a small room or about the size of a bathroom. And, um, I, uh, so I lay down on the floor and went to, I went to sleep and,

00:48:55.159 - 00:49:32.780

uh, I don't know how long it was. So, so, uh, it wasn't very long and, uh, I was both in to a beautiful room in the castle and, uh, I gonna still still see that, uh, that chairman. And, uh, he was, uh, oh, what would be

00:49:32.800 - 00:50:07.419

a major, I think, uh, and now on our way, so we, uh, all right, was brought to him and, uh, his favorite saying was, uh, are you, the war is over? We have clipped your wings. And, uh, he said to me, well, are there any of

00:50:07.429 - 00:50:31.929

your friends that, uh, uh, they had a little leaf notebook that high, that thick and, uh, that you would like to, uh, uh, find out about how they made out? And, uh, I said I went to reach for it. No, he said no, give me their

00:50:31.939 - 00:51:06.250

names. Well, I wasn't about to do that. So, so, um, hey, he'd asked me questions and then they take the attitude I get, get rid of them. And, uh, so he, it went on and on and I don't know whether it was a few days or

00:51:06.260 - 00:51:36.159

a few weeks. But, uh, but, but one day he said, Lieutenant, he said, uh, I know about, you know, more about you than you know about yourself. And, uh, he proceeded to tell me that, that this was around Memorial Day, the 27th of May. And uh

00:51:37.969 - 00:52:09.790

city of Revere O has a beach and uh, the beach has the roller coasters and flying horses and all that. And, uh, and he said to me, he said, uh, uh, one day, he said, he said, uh, oh, before that, he, he, uh, he said to

00:52:09.800 - 00:52:34.610

the lieutenant, he said, if you, if you promise me, uh, there's no funny business going on. I'll, I'll let you keep your window shots on. And, uh, I said, uh, funny business. I don't know what you mean. And we went back and forth and I said,

00:52:34.629 - 00:53:06.040

uh, nice. Well, the, the file, I don't know, it dawned on me and we had a, in our escape kit. We had a, a file about so long a shop file and a case in rubber. And in case of uh capture, capture, you, you're supposed to

00:53:06.699 - 00:53:27.469

shove that up in your rectum and, and uh, and leave the thread hanging out. And he knew about that. So, so one day he, uh, said to me it's a nice day out and how would you like to go out for a walk or if you

00:53:27.479 - 00:53:57.550

promise not to try to escape? And, uh, and it was the spring of the year and, uh, all these formal gardens and, uh, and they went on for, oh, football field would be a good guess. And, and, uh, um, so a day, right? I took a

00:53:57.560 - 00:54:26.520

walk from myself and he, he can, uh, he said to me, he said, uh, uh, you know, you want to talk now. And so, like, of course, I, I didn't want to talk to him. And, uh, so one day he got to me and, uh, he

00:54:26.530 - 00:54:50.429

said, uh, he said, uh, lieutenant said, I know more about you than you know about yourself. And he said, talking about the rides of every day beach and, uh, of being all cleaned up for Memorial Day. And, uh, they opened on a memorial Day, don't they?

00:54:51.580 - 00:55:14.929

And I said yes. And, and, uh, and I finally said to him, I said, how come you know so much about the Boston area? And he said, well, they went to Harvard and, uh, I guess he did, um, one second, sir. I'm about to through the

00:55:14.939 - 00:55:39.850

beginning of your prisoner experience and, and, and tell me a little bit about what life was like at style of Luke three. Well, uh, he finally finished with me. And, uh, I was put on a I train, uh, and, uh, taken to, uh, style of three,

00:55:40.739 - 00:56:11.879

which was, uh, Southeast of Berlin. And, uh, there was some movie where The Great Escape was written about. And, um, um, star of three. Uh, it was pretty well organized. I had to, uh, I had to find somebody that knew me before. I'd be taken into

00:56:12.300 - 00:56:50.860

the confidence of the, of the, uh, other prisoners And, uh, which wasn't too hard. Uh, the colonel was, was the, and, uh, they had bailed out and, uh, when you didn't have to, um, uh, star of three was, uh, was pretty well organized. And, uh, we

00:56:50.870 - 00:57:32.959

would, uh, we would, uh, have, have, uh, it was, uh, number one, I was put in a, in a room with 48 other guys and, uh, some p 38 pilots as well as, uh, bomb pilots. And, um, p 38 was a plan and, and, uh, there

00:57:32.969 - 00:58:05.590

were 15 of us in a room and, and really, um, we all had, uh, had a job to do and, and, uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, what they called a slicer. Yeah, because I, I had a, a knife, I end up on a rock

00:58:05.600 - 00:58:37.909

and, and, uh, uh, the, it was pretty sharp and I, I would cut the, uh, uh, slice the bread, uh, as, uh, a typical bacon slice. And, uh, uh, if you, if you ate the bread uh without cooking it, it will give you dysentery. We found

00:58:37.919 - 00:59:05.280

that out and, and uh, so I was, uh I was given the job, as I say, a slicer and, and uh uh it was uh pretty well organized. They, they had a, had a stove in a room but, but I don't remember uh having fuel for

00:59:05.290 - 00:59:38.770

it. Uh instead we, we took uh oh cans which was a milk spelled backwards, powdered milk and, and uh we'd get a Red Cross parcel. It was supposed to be one parcel per man. Uh And I don't know what the, what the time frame was, but,

00:59:39.159 - 01:00:22.040

but we never, never got that. And uh oh the uh the the parcel would consist of powdered milk, a can of salmon. Uh So to play or decks of playing cards. Um sometimes uh my chess, chess, uh chess game and uh oh, I don't know, but

01:00:22.050 - 01:00:49.570

it was supposed to last one week for one man. Well, I never, I never saw it and uh uh we had to uh share a parcel between us and, and uh and as I say, I was given the job of slicer and, and uh uh we'd

01:00:49.709 - 01:01:25.100

uh late, late. Uh it, it was funny but um a couple of couple of fellows would go over to the hall and bring back 20 20 whatever loaves of bread and uh and they would take a uh blood and put it on their shoulders and it

01:01:25.110 - 01:01:50.239

was, uh, it was funny to see them because, uh, uh, there was a way to, weighed probably £100 and, uh, they, they take her, put it on the shoulders and, and, uh, uh, walk back to the, uh, to the building and, and, uh, for a particular

01:01:50.250 - 01:02:11.189

parrack or whatever and, uh, distribute it and, uh, it would be one loaf of bread per room. And, uh, so as I say, I was a slicer because I, I had a shop and a knife and, and I was able to cut it, cut it real

01:02:11.199 - 01:02:40.169

thin. Well, we have, uh, have a cup, half a cup of barley soup a day. Uh, the barley soup was, uh, uh, pretty wormy. And, uh, and, uh, at first I, I know I took my worms out but then as I got hungry I, I, I,

01:02:40.229 - 01:03:24.520

uh, I, I ate worms and all and, uh, oh, of three it was, uh, was under the control of her and he, he was himself a, uh, pilot and, and, and, uh, uh, he had, uh, kinship, uh, other pilots and, uh, our, and, uh, uh, uh,

01:03:25.729 - 01:03:59.909

are pretty well organized. Um, a camp as, as, uh, prison camps go. Um, the, they had, um, I, I see it, huh? And with a stage and, and, uh, once a week they, they put on a show of the prisoners and the prison. So sometimes they

01:03:59.919 - 01:04:30.570

will take the part of women and so forth and, uh, but all the time, I don't know, uh, all the time they were, uh, they were Kerstein, uh, affairs going on and, uh, and, uh, tunnels and, and, uh, they, they, they, uh, would take, uh, uh,

01:04:35.739 - 01:05:02.929

take out a horse and a, like a Trojan horse. And, uh, and I put it, uh, uh, jumping over it and, uh, but it came right down to the ground and, and, uh, and uh, they put it in the same place every time and, and, uh,

01:05:03.949 - 01:05:32.820

there was a tunnel dug, dug down under it. No. Can you take me through an average day? Uh, solidly three, we'd get, we'd wake up and, uh have to get out at the parade ground or, or, or outside the camp building on the camp and uh

01:05:33.659 - 01:06:10.570

uh at six o'clock in the morning, I think it was. And, um, um, we, uh sometimes we have to uh stand, stand out there for an hour or whatever I heard in the cold. And, uh, oh, wait, we purposely confuse the Germans and uh, uh they

01:06:10.600 - 01:06:43.939

say 95 drive and cutting the rows or the, and, and uh, and the same same uh uh cross in individual role and multiply it. And, uh, and, and if it didn't come out right, it would, uh, you do it again and, uh, the, the commandant uh

01:06:45.260 - 01:07:22.719

tried to get us to, to use the Nazi salute, which is like this and, oh, we, we never did. We uh we answer them with a, with a, with a conventional sword. Um And I don't know. Um I, I it's pretty foggy to me. Um What,

01:07:23.300 - 01:08:02.760

what we did after you have after approval a pill, they called it uh uh head count and, and um so then we would busy ourselves with different than others and, and uh uh like a, a class uh or, or a stage show, uh, or, uh, all

01:08:02.770 - 01:08:43.250

right, you name it. Uh, uh, the art classes were, as I say, paint a picture of a flower or something. And, and, uh, when the, when the gods were not in place and, um, it would be actually be a map. And, uh, so I don't know,

01:08:43.959 - 01:09:20.810

uh, I don't remember how we, we busied ourselves and, uh, um, but we did, uh, I did, uh, walk, walk, uh, constantly around the perimeter of the, uh, of the camp of the camp and, uh, look camp had, uh, and, uh, oh, 33 layers of wire.

01:09:21.500 - 01:09:58.759

Uh, yeah, I, I don't know, 10 ft apart, uh, fencing and, uh, and Bob Dwyer in between it. And, uh, and then, uh, the, the God tower would be in the, in the center of all that. And, uh, uh, so it was, but in between, those

01:09:58.770 - 01:10:31.109

are probably 20 ft from that. From the bowyer fencing was a no man's land. Where, where? Oh, that was, uh, a wire. Uh, when in other words, if you cross that across that wire without permission from the guard, it would be shot. And, uh, ah, I

01:10:31.120 - 01:11:01.750

remember one follower, uh, went, went to and, uh, and, uh, a, uh, here you are, jumped over that for a while and, and, uh, and, uh, climbed up, climbed up one wire fence and which was, oh, I don't know, eight or 10 ft tall. And, uh,

01:11:01.759 - 01:11:38.069

despite the warnings from the guards and, and, uh, so he was, he was shot and killed and, uh, um, but wait, wait, we had gardens and, and, uh, uh, such as they were. Uh, but everything was for a purpose. Um, we made all kinds of things

01:11:38.080 - 01:12:13.810

out of, uh, clem cans, the powdered milk spelled backwards and, and, uh, one fellow made, uh, one fellow made a, uh, um, steam engine out of it, uh, uh, where he, uh, he put some twigs or something and the, the bolt was, uh, was propelled by,

01:12:14.520 - 01:12:45.879

by something like that. And, oh, he, uh, he, he tried it out in the fire pole and he had a pool and, uh, not a swimming pool but, but, uh, a fire pool and, uh, ah, he tried it and sunk and, uh, oh, I don't know.

01:12:45.890 - 01:13:22.430

We, we used to make all kinds of, uh, all kinds of, uh, metal objects. I don't know. Can you tell me what was the, the hardest part for you being a prisoner? The starvation? I officially, I officially weighed in at £80 down from 100 and 55.

01:13:23.669 - 01:14:02.569

Uh, I lost half my body weight, uh, when I was, when I was, uh, at, uh, at Moose and, uh, when we were liberated and, uh, the starvation and, uh, the cold, oh, we would, we would, uh, do everything to keep warm, um, uh, even from

01:14:02.580 - 01:14:36.029

running or whatever. And, uh, one fellow when I came into the camp, he said, uh, he said, uh, what's your name? And I, I told him and, uh, and, uh, uh, he said he was from, uh, he was from Brooklyn and, uh, he said, uh, where

01:14:36.040 - 01:15:06.149

are you from? And, uh, I said from America. And, uh, uh, he said, I know that but we, we both in America and, uh I said near Boston. And, uh, and, uh, and he said he, he, uh, was from Brooklyn and, uh, uh, hey, uh, he

01:15:06.160 - 01:15:37.549

paid a visit to Germany and overstayed his visa and so him in the army. And, uh, I, uh, of course, I never trusted him. Uh, but, uh, he spoke good English and, uh, when the, uh, when the S S troops wanted to come into the camp

01:15:37.560 - 01:16:09.290

at Moose, uh, he, uh, uh, he resisted and, uh, he was shot and killed. And so I guess the fellows on the level after all, um, can you tell me about that, uh, that march to Moose? The Blizzard March? Well, in between, I went to Nuremberg

01:16:10.040 - 01:16:50.180

and, uh, it was, uh, it was later in the afternoon when we left and snowing heavily and, uh, uh, the, we walked off all night and all the next day and, uh, all the next night that all about four o'clock in the afternoon or five o'clock

01:16:50.189 - 01:17:25.359

in the afternoon. And, uh, in other words, we walked without stopping other than, uh, a, a five minute break or so. And, uh, we worked for 48 hours and, uh, so he finally put up in a town and, uh, um, the Germans had, uh, had started

01:17:25.370 - 01:17:55.060

out on horse back and, but the horses gave out and there they had the slaves and the slaves gave out and the horse was drawing the slaves and, uh, the dogs even. But, uh, uh, we, we, uh, we kept going or else and, uh, it was

01:17:55.069 - 01:18:18.799

saying, no, that was in the town. I was telling you about, uh, that, uh, I don't know where it was and about, but I was huddled in a doorway and the door opened and, and, uh, a girl about my age at the time. And, uh, it

01:18:18.810 - 01:18:51.089

was, uh, no, put her finger, put a finger on the lips and I took my hand and, and pulled me in and, uh, I, they had a fire going in a fireplace. There were quite a few people in there and, uh, uh, that was, that was

01:18:51.100 - 01:19:21.060

one and they took off my, my boots and dried them and they took off my socks and what was left of them and, uh, they drowned them. And, uh, boy, I thought that was pretty good. And, uh, and they made a motion of that, I tell

01:19:21.149 - 01:19:46.540

you and, uh, uh, like that themselves and, and I got the idea and, uh, and, uh, so as they shoved me out again and, uh, I often thought I, I would like to have gone back and seen those people but, but I had no idea where

01:19:46.549 - 01:20:25.160

I was at the time. Then somewhere along the line we were, we, uh, led into a pottery factory and, uh, uh, so the pottery factory was hot or warm. And, uh, and, uh, I came too on a, a pile of rocks. I just, uh, fallen on

01:20:25.209 - 01:20:59.200

a, a pile of rocks and, uh, as long as there was war and, yeah, uh, or pottery or whatever it was. And, uh, so then I don't remember, uh, how we got to Nuremberg from, uh, from, uh, oh, I don't know if that was where we,

01:20:59.549 - 01:21:26.910

we were put in box cars. Um, and, uh, one fellow with, uh, sit me of his back leaning against the side of a, uh, or whatever, a car or car and, uh, with his legs out open and, and another fellow would sit between his legs and

01:21:26.919 - 01:22:13.430

so on. And, uh, oh, I don't know how long we were on that train but the train was strafed and bombed and you weren't, uh, flying out of it. And, uh, uh, where you are all had to go actually. Um, oh, who called me? That shit

01:22:13.439 - 01:22:55.910

all over Germany. And, uh, oh, I don't remember, uh, a lot of it but, uh, we eventually got to Nuremberg. Yeah, noon bug was terrible. It had been, uh, it had been a house for Italian prisoners, I think. And, uh, but we would have been evacuated

01:22:57.240 - 01:23:30.740

and, uh, so they put us up in the, and, uh, we had, uh, it was on, that bag was under almost constant attack. The Americans would come over in the daytime. And, uh, that was a sickening sight when you'd see B 24 s tumbling end over

01:23:30.750 - 01:24:06.899

end and, and, uh, and, uh, so on. And, uh, oh yeah, the British would come over at night and, uh, that, that was, uh, quite a, quite a spectacle, uh, night, night bombardments and, and, uh, a couple of pathfinder planes would come over, um, uh, dropping

01:24:06.910 - 01:24:37.910

flares of parachute flares. So it was bright brighter than the day here at night. And, uh, uh, they, uh, they, they use conventional bombs but, but, uh, once in a while they'd use a, what we call a Blockbuster. And, uh, I don't know, uh, how heavy

01:24:37.919 - 01:25:03.680

the bomb was but, uh, it was, uh, it was pretty heavy. It shook the, shook the town of the camp, uh, we were wrong of, I think three kilometers from the, uh, it was the target area and, uh, uh, we weren't supposed to have a camp

01:25:03.689 - 01:25:44.299

there but, but, uh, the Nazis didn't pay much attention to the convention. Um, name Bag. No, was, uh, pretty bad. Oh, it was dirty. No running water outside of, uh, uh, an outdoor sp. And, uh, I don't know how many men had to use a spigot

01:25:45.410 - 01:26:13.919

hundreds of men and they, uh, they had a latrine, uh, was, uh, uh, we got there in the, on the dock and, uh, uh, they had a train like a, like a big pit in the ground. And, uh, and you had to sit on a, uh,

01:26:14.040 - 01:26:58.080

two by four, uh, and one fellow fell in. Yeah. Uh, yeah, we all said, you know who your friends are then and, uh, oh, he, he had no water to wash himself off or anything. And, uh, so a nice flavor, night rain. So, or quite a

01:26:58.089 - 01:27:26.479

spectacle. And, uh, but what, what went on up had to come down and, uh, bits of bits of metal and everything else. And, and, uh, so we, uh, we, uh, asked the Germans if I could dig slick trenches and, uh, we'd go out and, uh, when

01:27:26.490 - 01:27:55.669

there was an air raid, which was pretty constant, uh, we'd, uh, we'd go out and, uh, in the slight trench and, uh, cover our heads. Um, can you take me through how, uh, how you got to moos. Yeah, they came, it came a time when, and,

01:27:55.680 - 01:28:40.879

uh, we abandoned, uh, Nuremberg and started the tractor moose. And, uh, it, it was, uh, it was in the spring of the year. Um, oh, I don't know if, if it was probably April and, uh, the, uh, the, uh, I, I, I don't remember how we

01:28:40.890 - 01:29:11.060

got a fire going but we, we found a, a pot and, and, uh, the Germans told us that we were going to stay in this area for the day. So, so myself and two other guys, uh, said it would be a good time to get the

01:29:11.069 - 01:29:44.580

bugs off of us. And, uh, so we, we, uh, found a tub and, uh, I, I don't remember how we got the fire going, but we did and, uh, uh, threw all our clothes in there and, uh, and, uh, um, then they, uh, we, we, we

01:29:44.589 - 01:30:15.930

picked out the bugs off of each other. We were stuck naked and we, I, we had a little pink, ok, bugs about and it's long and pink and like a lobster. And, uh, we had a lot of them and, and, uh, I never could find out

01:30:15.939 - 01:30:41.910

what they were. Oh, and, uh, then we, we had bed bugs and, and lice and, oh, oh, you name it? And, and so, so we, we put a, uh, our clothing and, uh, in this bucket of water and, and, uh, the theory was that we, we

01:30:41.919 - 01:31:05.029

bring them all out and, and dry them and, and it was a good dry day and then, uh, and, uh, so on, well, we know no sooner got to picking the bugs off of each other. Then the Germans changed their mind and said, no, they said

01:31:05.600 - 01:31:37.879

we're going to, uh, move on. So we had to, we bring our clothes out and, and, uh, and, uh, put them on wet, damp and uh uh if you, if you think it's uh uh difficult walking, uh and uh and the drive drive thing of dry

01:31:37.890 - 01:32:22.089

clothing, I'll try walking in wet clothing. Oh, so bye then, then uh a couple of fit fires k came down and uh and uh uh firing on the road and, and uh and uh so, so they, the spit fires or English playing and, and uh strafing

01:32:22.100 - 01:32:56.399

the road while they didn't realize that we were prisoners of war. And, and uh so we all dove off off the, off the uh a road and uh the road was built up and, and uh myself and the other guy uh landed baby. A drain goes

01:32:56.410 - 01:33:29.359

across the road and uh it was dry. Uh But it was a big pipe. And uh so he crawled into what? And uh we waited for, for the uh for followers, all the followers. So to uh go and, and uh uh after we, everybody left and

01:33:29.370 - 01:33:59.330

then we were gonna go out and try to escape. Well, we, we, uh, spotted some trees, a clump of trees and we figured, we figured we'd go up to that of trees and, and find out where we were and so forth. Well, we, uh, went, went

01:33:59.339 - 01:34:27.720

running from bush to bush and, uh, up the, up the hillside and, uh, got to the copper trees and what was it as a German gun position? And, uh, they had been watching, watching us all the while and, uh, but they, they were, they were good

01:34:27.729 - 01:35:22.240

and uh uh they actually gave us something to eat some black bread or whatever. And uh and uh so we were returned so uh to the other marching party, I guess. Um, so eventually made or mob. Um And uh I remember one day, um I remember

01:35:22.250 - 01:35:56.359

one day, um I was in the uh there again, I was housed in a building but the Russians were housed in tents and sleeping on the ground, but they, they would steal potatoes and things. In other words, the Germans used to use them as slaves and

01:35:56.370 - 01:36:33.129

uh put them out in the farms and all that stuff and they'd steal potatoes. And uh so I don't know uh what I had that I was trading uh probably a cigarette or so, cigarettes are quite valuable. And uh, oh, I was, I was uh say

01:36:33.140 - 01:37:04.060

trading with some Russians to get, get some potatoes or whatever. And uh a colored bullets came flying by my head and I can zing zing like that. And, uh, so he went running out of the tent and, uh, oh, I, I, I, I threw myself on

01:37:04.069 - 01:37:36.979

the ground and as everybody else did and, uh, off in the distance, like from here to oh half again as far as that other building, uh, um, I could see a municipal building with a steeple of a church where the Germans had a composition and uh

01:37:37.560 - 01:38:09.160

and that was two or three story flat roof building next to it. And uh uh then I saw a tank back up and uh blow the steeple off at church. Uh uh uh we uh municipal over the church or whatever. And uh uh they, as I

01:38:09.169 - 01:38:35.250

say, they blew the steeple off the church and uh and uh so then I saw the Nazi flag come down and the American flag go up. Oh boy, that was quite a sight. No, I talk about uh there were a lot of brave men in that

01:38:35.259 - 01:39:07.870

camp, but they joked about it later that the ground was soggy with the tears. And uh uh a short time later, General Patton himself came in and a couple of tanks came into the compound and uh I, I hitched a ride. I don't know how I

01:39:07.879 - 01:39:41.680

got there. But uh and I, they were heading for, that was an extermination camp. Uh are an extermination town. And uh oh, what that's the only thing I regret doing. Uh, it was horrible and they had a, a big pit with all these parties in it.

01:39:43.430 - 01:40:22.649

Uh, hundreds of, I don't know, I don't know how many parties were there about when General Patton, uh, came through the town. Oh, he, he was so wild. He, uh, he made all the towns people and, uh, uh, whatever town it was, uh, take a look

01:40:22.660 - 01:40:57.319

and see what, what uh uh the nice isn't been up till and uh, the second row of them. So then they uh, a couple of planes into a grassy field that was, and now they are and uh cargo planes. Oh, I guess they were, were planes

01:40:57.330 - 01:41:36.410

without uh seats. So they had windows in them. Yeah, I know because, uh, because we got aboard the planes and uh, uh, eventually, yeah, we were told to eat as often as we could but, but no more than a spoonful at a time I throw it

01:41:36.419 - 01:42:04.540

up and uh, alright, I remember saying to me, um, I, I know it's not supposed to talk about food but I can't get it off my mind. And, and uh, I said, what do you mean? And he said, uh, did you ever taste pineapple upside down

01:42:04.549 - 01:42:34.859

cake? And I, I said, oh, I love it. And uh, he said, me too. And uh, so I, I, I said, uh, I told that story to my wife and my mother and when I got home and everywhere I had, we had pineapple upside down cake,

01:42:35.540 - 01:43:05.200

but I couldn't eat it. My stomach was in too much of a mess. And, uh, solidary rate. Are we, we, uh, boarded the plane and I remember making two passes around the Eiffel Tower. That's one thing we remember. And, and, uh, and, uh, I think I

01:43:05.209 - 01:43:39.620

was taken to, I know then, then we came, came back by Brian Pot and, uh, the boat went across to England. I walk the white cliffs of Dover I saw and, uh, I don't know why we went to England, but the law was still on, of

01:43:39.629 - 01:44:13.859

course, and, and, uh, we were put in a convoy and, and, uh, taken to New Jersey. Uh, but it took us, uh, oh, a couple of weeks or so of the, of the convoy was, uh, uh, had a couple of destroyers and, and, uh, so forth

01:44:14.430 - 01:44:37.560

and, uh, I don't know how, how long it took us to get across the ocean. But, uh, he did, uh, dog leg up and so forth one second, sir. I'm about to see what it was like to, to see your family. Uh, when you got home.

01:44:37.569 - 01:45:04.140

Can you tell me what it was like to see your family? I had had a, I had a manual training teacher. Uh, in other words, I was going to surprise my family, my mother and, uh, and so forth and, and, uh, my uh, we've gotten married

01:45:04.160 - 01:45:42.740

and, uh, in the meantime, or during what time and, uh, we'd gotten married on April Fool's Day. Yeah. Nice. Hope so. Where was I, uh, my story, um, oh, oh, uh, we came and, uh, uh, the war was still on and, uh, and, uh, the Atlantic

01:45:42.750 - 01:46:13.339

was, uh, it was, uh, pretty wild and, uh, and, uh, we came across in a storm and, and, uh, and now the, the destroyers were completely out of state. And, uh, um, so we, we got into, uh Camp Ilma in New Jersey and I don't know

01:46:13.350 - 01:46:49.160

how I got from New Jersey up to Massachusetts. Um, uh, I haven't the slightest idea. Uh, but, but when I went into Camp Devins, I had, had a, I had, had a manual training teacher and in the school and he, he had been in the first

01:46:49.169 - 01:47:17.080

World War and, uh, he had retained his commission and, uh, now he was the commandant of the, uh, of the, uh, Fort Taverns. And, uh, he was a general and, uh, so, so he called me, I was wondering how I, how I'm going to get from

01:47:17.339 - 01:47:55.959

Camp Devins back to Revere and, and, uh, um, probably 50 miles and, and, uh, so I, I had a call so, so, uh, from the commandant and the messenger or something. And, uh, uh, he, uh, it turned out he was mister, I, I had called him,

01:47:55.970 - 01:48:19.520

I always called him Mr Barrows but, uh, uh, he had, uh, he was now commandant of, uh, Camp Devins and, uh, he was a general. And, uh, so, so, uh, he, he sold my ride home. He, uh, he said to me he said I'm going to

01:48:19.529 - 01:48:48.899

ride your home and, and, uh, so forth and, uh, which was a half hour ride or an hour or something. I don't remember. And, uh, so, so I was gonna surprise my, my family instead. He had let them know and I, I went to, uh, to

01:48:48.910 - 01:49:25.850

my parents' house and, and, uh, they lived about a mile from my, my wife's family and, uh, lo and behold, all of them were, all of them were there and, uh, it was a reunion on, oh, thank God, I made it. Oh, all right. I think,

01:49:25.859 - 01:49:42.200

uh, I think you've given me a pretty good summary of your service here today. And, uh, I'd like to thank you for, for sitting down and, and sharing, uh, sharing your experiences with me. Um I'd also like to thank you guys for help facilitate this. Well,

01:49:42.209 - 01:50:13.620

I've resisted a long, a long time. I'm, I'm, uh, I, uh, I finally play good. Well, it's history and, uh, and, uh, what, what time, what, what did you say to the, to, uh, so, um, what, what did she say to have some talk about? I

01:50:13.629 - 01:50:37.390

was just talking about when you played the trip on the, uh German Guards when you were in what the, with the night vision? Oh. Ah, yeah. Did I talk about that? We, we got into this topic, you, you told me at the table but not on

01:50:37.399 - 01:51:06.680

camera. Would you, do you mind repeating that story? Well, we, we knew, knew that the Germans were up to and all of us suddenly, uh, they put out the lights, uh, at nine o'clock and, uh, uh, then they, they bust into a room, uh, 15 men

01:51:06.689 - 01:51:33.740

in a room and, and, uh, and, uh, the bright lights to catch you doing something you weren't supposed to, uh, like digging a tunnel or whatever. And, uh, so we know that they were what they were going to do and, and I don't know how we

01:51:33.750 - 01:52:04.009

knew, but we didn't know. And, uh, the rum is pitch black and, uh, we're all, uh, all doing things that you need eye eyesight for and, and, uh, like, uh, we were playing a game of chess myself and another fella and, uh, there are four others

01:52:04.020 - 01:52:34.939

playing game of bridge and they have all the cards set out and, and, uh, and, uh, I wonder was whittling everything you need your eyes for. Yeah, I'm, uh, so they, the, uh, they busted in on us and our bright lights and, uh, and they all,

01:52:36.419 - 01:53:00.970

what's this? And we told them we were night fighters so we could see in the dark. Well, it was, uh, another German that didn't speak English. And, uh, uh, he wondered what it was all about and, uh, so what are the other Germans? Um, I told

01:53:00.979 - 01:53:43.100

him what we were night fighters and he said, oh, and, uh, I guess where you are, I guess we are. I don't know, I heard, I, I think we were, we put it over on them that day. All right. I have a, I have a few

01:53:43.109 - 01:54:03.100

questions, I'd like to ask you and these are, uh, just general questions. Um, do you believe it's important that, uh, future generations study and learn about World War Two? Yes. That's why I'm, uh, I'm talking to you through the day. Um, I don't know if I've

01:54:03.109 - 01:54:47.720

added anything to it. Um, I don't know if I've added any, everything that I've, I've said today so to, uh, convince, uh, future generations, uh, or what I did, um, uh, we were attacked and, uh, and, uh, that's all it was about it. Uh, uh, we

01:54:47.729 - 01:55:21.390

were attacked and, uh, and, uh, I felt that I wanted to do my share of protecting the country. Um, as I did a lot of others, we were all patriotic at that time. I don't know how patriotic, uh, people are today. People are gonna watch this

01:55:21.399 - 01:55:43.669

tape maybe, uh, maybe a couple 100 years from now and, and learn about your story, learn about the time that you lived in. Um, if you had a message to give future Americans who might be watching this tape. What would that message be? I put my

01:55:43.680 - 01:56:20.459

flag out every morning and I saluted and I take it in every night, weather permitting. And, uh, I don't know if, uh, if people think I'm silly they'll be, be saluting the flag or what. But I feel so strongly that America is a great country. Um,

01:56:22.569 - 01:57:02.520

it's worth defending. Um, I don't know, I don't know the way things are going today or? Well, that's the attitude or not. I, somehow I, I think that it still is. I don't know. Is there anything you would like to add that maybe we haven't touched

01:57:02.529 - 01:57:45.410

on or anything you'd like to say to your family, do, do, do what, anything you'd like to add, uh, or say to your family. America is the greatest country in the world, I think. Oh, well, politicians, I think they're, to me they're just politicians and, uh,

01:57:47.910 - 01:58:36.479

I've seen, uh, I've seen, uh, what, what the Nazis could do and I, I, I've seen how they, it was a long time ago but it still lives vividly in my mind and, uh, I've seen what misguided people can do to our country. I'm, uh, I

01:58:36.520 - 01:59:18.040

don't know, uh, with the, with the right people in charge, uh, I'll still, I'll still remain a great country. That's like, I think it's still the greatest country in the world. Oh, I don't know. I don't know where we're headed. All right. Well,